President Forever 2012 Candidate Attributes

Note: these numbers are not the latest. The latest numbers are now in the latest internal version of President Forever 2012. Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Candidates list to start:

  • Rep. Michele Bachmann Le=4, In=3, Ex=2, IF=2, Ch=4, St=4, D=3, Total=22
  • Gov. Haley Barbour Le=4, In=2, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=3, Total=23
  • Gov. Chris Christie Le=5, In=3, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=4, Total=27
  • Sec. Hillary Clinton Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=2, St=3, D=3, Total=21
  • Gov. Mitch Daniels Le=5, In=4, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=4, Total=27
  • Sen. Russ Feingold Le=3, In=4, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=2, St=3, D=3, Total=22
  • Rep. Newt Gingrich Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=5, Ch=2, St=3, D=4, Total=24
  • Gov. Mike Huckabee Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=4, St=3, D=4 Total=24
  • Gov. Jon Huntsman Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=3 Total=26
  • Gov. Bobby Jindal Le=4, In=4, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=4, Total=25
  • Gov. Gary Johnson Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=2, St=3, D=3, Total=22
  • President Barack Obama Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=5, St=3, D=4 Total=27
  • Gov. Sarah Palin L=4, In=3, Ex=2, IF=2, Ch=4, St=4, D=2 Total=21
  • Rep. Ron Paul Le=2, In=5, Ex=2, IF=4, Ch=2, St=2, D=3, Total=20
  • Gov. Tim Pawlenty L=4, In=4, Exp=4, IF=3, Ch=3, St=4, D=3 Total=25
  • Gen. David Petraeus Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=2, Ch=3, St=4, D=3, Total=22
  • Gov. Mitt Romney Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=5, D=4 Total=28
  • Sen. Rick Santorum Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=3, St=3, D=3, Total=21
  • Sen. John Thune Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=4, St=3, D=3, Total=22
  • Mr. Donald Trump Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=2, Ch=4, St=3, D=3, Total=22

(Note: in President Forever 2012, candidates have campaign attributes as well. This thread is just for personal attributes.)

This thread is an opportunity for people to give feedback on 2012 candidate personal attributes, as they see it.

The attributes currently are:

Leadership – leadership abilities and skills, often reflected by executive experience.

Integrity – personal and campaign integrity.

Experience – political (or relevant) experience.

Issue Familiarity – versatility and depth in understanding relevant issues.

Charisma

Stamina

Debating

The scale is 1-5. An average national-level candidate would have 3’s. A 4 would mean ‘exceptional’. A 5 would mean ‘very exceptional’.

You can see here for the most recent list of candidates who might be included in the 2012 game. I’ll start the candidate list off small, and occasionally expand it to more candidates.

336 thoughts on “President Forever 2012 Candidate Attributes

  1. First off, why is Romney’s integrity a 2? I don’t see any reason why! He’s been faithful to his family and has done nothing scandalous during his tenure as Governor of Massachusetts. Also, why is his charisma and debating so weak?Last game,he was 4-4. Now he’s a 3-3. He may not be super charistmatic, but he does debate well.

    Here’s my ideas for other candidates…

    Sarah Palin…L=3…Integ=3…Exp=2…IF=2…Charisma=5…Stam=4…Debating=3
    Tim Pawlenty…L=4…Integ=3…Exp=4…IF=3…Charisma=3…Stam=4…Debating=4

  2. @PW,

    If it were just Romney’s personal integrity, it would be 4 or 5. It is his issue positioning, which earned him the moniker ‘Flip Romney’ in the last election cycle.

    I’ve upped it to 3 for now.

    I’ve upped both Romney and Obama’s Charisma and Debating by 1 point.

  3. Added Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, and Jon Huntsman.

    @PW, bumped SP’s Le 3 -> 4 from what you had, Ch 5 -> 4 (her charisma is great, but she seems to turn some people off), De 3 -> 2 (based on her debate with Biden last election cycle).

    @Chad, bumped Huntsman’s Ex 5 -> 4 from what you had (a 5 is almost exclusively reserved for sitting Presidents), and St 5 -> 4 (if you have evidence he has super-stamina, I’m interested, though).

  4. IMO:

    * Gov. Mitt Romney Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=5 >4 (he’s over 60 years old) , D=4
    * President Barack Obama Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=5, St=3>4 (he’s still relatively young, and is a very lively campaigner, even outside election seasons), D=4>3 (he stuttered a bit during his debates with McCain)
    * Gov. Sarah Palin L=4, In=3, Ex=2>3 (if she wasn’t McCain’s running mate, then I’d agree), IF=2, Ch=4, St=4, D=2
    * Gov. Tim Pawlenty L=4, In=3, Exp=4, IF=3, Ch=3>2 (IMO he’s Kerry-esque charisma-wise), St=4, D=3
    * Amb. Jon Huntsman Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=3
    * Gov. Mike Huckabee Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=4, St=3, D=4
    .

  5. @Bobby, thanks for the feedback – a few comments in specific:

    Romney St 5 -> 4, I’ll keep an eye on whether he’s less energetic this time around, this number is based on his campaigning in 2008.

    Obama St 3 -> 4 and D 4 -> 3, suggestions noted.

    Palin Ex 2 -> 3, well … she has never run for President (just VP, as you note), and hasn’t served out a full term as Governor. She has had a lot of experience in the meantime giving speeches, ‘campaigning’ in some sense, and so on. She also certainly has more experience now than in 2008. I’ll think about this one.

    Pawlenty Ch 3 -> 2, this is fair enough, feedback noted. I want to get a better sense of how Pawlenty is in interviews and on the stump before knocking this to 2, though

  6. Michele Bachmann…L=3, I=3,E=2,IF=4,Charisma=4,Stamina=5,Debating=3

    Stamina: She is a pretty hard campaigner and she has been very active outside the political stage

    Issue Familarity: She is like a Glenn Beck when it comes issue knowledge. She goes super deep into the facts and comes up boatloads of knowledge.

    Charisma: Her charisma is above average. If she didn’t have as much charisma as she has now, she would have almost certainly lost reelection in the Democratic Renaissance of 2008.

    Experience: Big hinderance. Only 4 years on the National Stage and five years on a state level. She has more experience then a Palin candidacy, less then Obama when he ran in ’08.

  7. Mitch Daniels…L=5…I=3…E=4…IF=3…C=3…S=3…D=4

    Leadership: Mitch Daniels has been one of the most successful governors in the US within the past five years. Indiana is outperforming most states in nearly every category. Many Ohioans and Illinoians poured into Indiana when the Democrats took over their Governor’s mansion. Mitch Daniels has been a very successful governor in comparision to the other governors out there.

    Experience: Governor of Indiana, Bush budget director, owned over a million dollars worth of stocks

    Charisma: The media has blasted Daniels for being uncharismatic. He is somewhere between a George W. Bush and a Newt Gingrich when it comes to charisma. He states facts without implying very much flair to them.

    Debating: He is a good debater. I’ve watched him debate once, he keeps cool. He debates how George W. Bush debated against Gore. Calm and relaxed.

  8. John Thune…L=3…I=4…E=3…IF=3…C=4…S=3…D=4

    Marco Rubio (not that he’ll run)…L=4…I=3…E=2…IF=4…C=4…S=3…4 D

  9. Added Bachmann, Daniels, Thune.

    @PW, if you have any links to references to Bachmann having incredible stamina on the campaign trail (i.e., S=5), I’m open to it. I’ve set it to 4 for now.

    I’ve set her IF=2, due to some gaffes she seems to have made. Le=4 as she has become one of the highest-profile leaders of the ‘Tea Party’.

    There are some other differences, I’m open to feedback on all of it.

    Rubio I’ll add a little later, right now I want to focus on candidates who are likely to run.

  10. The other Democrats on the list:

    Sec. Hillary Clinton (OFF) – Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=4, D=4

    Sen. Evan Bayh (OFF) – Le=3, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=4, D=3

    Gov. Howard Dean (OFF) – Le=4, In=4, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=4, D=4

    Sen. Russ Feingold (OFF) – Le=3, In=4, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=3

    Sen. Mike Gravel (ON) – Le=3, In=4, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=2, D=4

    Gov. Mark Warner (OFF) – Le=4, In=4, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=3

  11. Whoa Elliot! Let’s wait for the game to come out first and let’s see if we NEED to change it.

    David Petraeus- L=4…I=3…E=3…IF=3…C=4…S=5…D=3

  12. Quick Question: Why Mark Warner? I haven’t heard any rumors about him. The only thing i’ve seen evidence of is in a Campaigns Forever Scenario made for 2012 he is an option. But that was 08!!!
    I think Hillary should be an option…Mike Gravel too…Russ Feingold I’m not so sure…Howard Dean’s charisma shouldn’t be so high

  13. Added Gary Johnson.

    @PW, I’ve set Johnson’s Le=4 (two-term successful Governor, built successful business before that).

    Can you say more about In=2 and St=3? (I have each one point higher.)

  14. Sen. Russ Feingold (OFF) – Le=5, In=5, Ex=3, IF=5, Ch=3, St=3, D=5

    Leadership – He offered amendments to financial reform to strengthen the bill. He was one of the leader opposing powerful corporate interests. He fought for campaign finance reform.

    Integrity – Russ Feingold is incredibly principled. He simply does what he believes (voted against bailouts, voted against financial reform because he believes that it is not strong enough and would cause the next collapse of the economy). He did what he believed and it made his reelections tough.

    Issue Familiarity – Russ Feingold devoted his whole life to his job while he was in office. It may explain why he is divorced two times.

    Debating- He is great debater (See debates with Ron Johnson).

    Some progressives see Russ Feingold as contender if not the leading contender to challenge President Obama.

  15. Quick question…Why does every candidate have a 4 for leadership? I mean, some of these guys have never even been the head of a company or corporation (much less a governship.

  16. Anthony, regarding Gary Johnson:

    Integrity: Without trying to sound judgemental, he has smoked Pot recently. I know this sounds judgemental, but alot people don’t approve of smoking pot and say it represents low integrity. He also divorced his wife. I am really not going to go any deeper into detail since I don’t want to offend anyone. You can research on Google what I described. He has pretty ugly integrity.
    Regarding stamina, I really see no reason to suggest he has great stamina. I think until we have a good guess, we should be him at 3.

  17. About Eliot’s comments on Russ Feingold, lets gain some perspective…

    Leadership- He is a Senator…his leadership skills have been completely untested. He has spent over 12 years sitting at desk on capitol hill just voting. And he has no prior experience in running a business. I’d give him a 3 (but considering how every other candidate is being rated, he’s probably going to be given a 4)

    Integrity- Eliot said Russ worked so much his wife divorced him. It really depends on what perspective of integrity you are looking at. Personal integrity and public integrity.

    Also, I cannot understand why Russ has soooo many 5s? Its just ridiculous! I know he was a talented Senator, but this is an overstatement if you consider how other candidats have been rated.

  18. Russ Feingold was the only senator to vote against the Patriot Act in 2001. Senator Feingold led a bipartisan coalition to filibuster the renewal of the Patriot Act in 2005 and in 2009 when the Patriot Act was up again for renewal, Senator Feingold wrote a bill Justice Act to replace the Patriot Act. The Justice Act protected civil liberties that Patriot Act did not. Russ Feingold has definitely shown more leadership than Sarah Palin and her leadership is 4!

    President Lyndon B. Johnson and Kennedy came from the senate and they were great leaders.

  19. Elliot, I know JFK and LBJ were both great leaders and I don’t deny that Russ COULD be a good leader, but the ratings you gave are pretty overstated. I think we can agree that Palin’s leadership is a bit overstated, but PLEASE PROVIDE TWO EXAMPLES where he actually led either a corporation or served as a chairman of an organization. Leading a bipartisan coaliton in the Senate doesn’t mean anything. Ron Paul did the same thing, so is HE going to get a 5 for leadership and integrity?

  20. Eliot,

    I understand where you are coming from when it comes to integrity. I know he divorced his wife because of his dedication to his job. But you have to remember how Theoryspark judges integrity. Usually it means personal character the basics. I would give him a 3. I would like 2-3 adequete examples that support his personal integrity.

    Again, I understand what you have said about leadership, at least where you are coming from. Sure, JFK was a good leader and LBJ came out okay (looking at the facts, not opinions.) But from what I know, Russ is totally untested when it comes to being the only leader. By the way, his bipartisan coalition to filibuster Patriot Act in 2005 was not led by him. He was one of the leading members, but that filibuster had no specific leader and guess what? It was crushed andthe Patriot Act continued. Also, if you think this is worthy of a 5 ranking, i think Palin deserves a little more don’t you?

  21. When Russ Feingold in the senate, he was the chairman of the United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution and United States Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on African Affairs

  22. First off, Russ Feingold was chairman of the United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution. But remember, he is the one who campaigned on the health care law that is being struck down everywhere as unconstitutional. Wait, I thought he was supposed to represent the constitution and make sure it was put in place? Basically, he wasn’t fufilling his duty.

    Yes, Russ Feingold called for Obama to pressure Egypt. But did he lead the movement? No. Your argument earlier how he was a progressive democrat who was more liberal than Obama doesn’t fit this argument. Most progressive Democrats don’t support getting involved in other countries so I can’t see where you are standing.

    And also, the article you gave for Feingold led financial reform was not saying he was the voice of the movement or he successfully acomplished to inanact financial reform. It would be against his duty to lead such an act. He could support it, but he is not chairman of the financial board (something like that). Also, just because he is a chairman on some senate board doesn’t mean he has leadership. Leadership ISN’T experience and ISN’T political views. Leadership is the ability to lead: Exampe :She displayed leadership potential. 3. an act or instance of leading; guidance; direction: They prospered under his leadership. -Dictionary.com
    When Russ lead as Chairman, the Democrats passed Obamacare which will likely go to the Supreme Court and be overturned. And then Russ campaigned on the law.
    Elliot, I think we can agree Russ does deserve a spot in the game. I think we agree that some candidates have unrealistic ratings in the game. But please consider my arguments.

  23. I think a reasonable rating for Russ Feingold would be…

    L=3…I=3…E=4…IF=4…Charisma=3…Stam=4…Debating=4

    POLLWONK

  24. I think a reasonable rating for Russ Feingold would be…

    L=4 I=3 E=3 IF=5 Charisma=3 Stam=2 Debating=4

    On stamina, Russ Feingold really worked hard for the past 18 years in the senate; he would 59 on Election Day, and was a weaker campaigner in 2010 than in 2004.

  25. Russ Feingold voted against a deregulation bill in 1994 that led to the economic collapse and he voted against the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999 and 2000 which led to economic collapse.

  26. @PW, re: Gary Johnson,

    For Integrity, please post a specific link re: his divorce (I did a cursory look, and can’t find anything specific).

    For Stamina, he used to run triathlons among a range of other things. What isn’t clear to me is what he is like now, after his paragliding accident (for which he used marijuana medicinally from 2005-8, it seems). So, I’m reducing Stamina -> 3.

  27. Mitch Daniels Le 4 -> 5. After watching part of his CPAC speech and becoming a little more familiar with his record as Governor of Indiana, I think he might stand out from the rest of the 4’s.

  28. @PW, re: large number of Le=4’s,

    Because they all seem to have above-average leadership abilities and skills.

    Only 2 of them aren’t or haven’t been Governors – Bachmann, who has become one of the de facto Republican leaders of the Tea Party movements, and Thune, who is a Sen. but is 4th in the Republican leadership structure for the Senate.

    However, putting Thune at 4 is surmising more than anything – I’ve bumped him down to Le=3.

  29. Since Russ Feingold devoted his life to his senate job for 18 years and is very smart man, he deserved a 5 for Issue familarity. I think Russ Feingold understands the issues better than Obama, so I want Feingold to have at least 1 point more in issue familiarty than Obama.

  30. Why give in to an obviously biased Romney hack? 2 was a good choice for Romney’s integrity. It reflected well the fact that, in the eyes of most voters, Romney cannot be trusted due to his many well-documented flip-flops.

    The way he’s tried to lie and flip-flop his way out of signing ObamaCare in Massachusetts will probably be what does him in in the real primaries, so it would make sense to have it as a weakness in PF2012.

  31. @E,

    I’m interested in whether the impression that Romney has low issue integrity will continue this time around. My guess is that it will, and that 2 – as you noted – will reflect that. Feedback noted.

  32. E,

    If wrong, please correct me, but Obama has flip flopped on many issues. Take comissions for example. He critized them during his campaign saying they were a way to “get back to you later”. Now, he has already created multiple commisons. He flipflopped on Healthcare, in the State of the Union 2010 he said that this bill had to be passed, then he said a year later he was willing to reconsider!!!!
    Also, John Kerry flipflopped more than Romney. And what was Kerry’s integrity in the 04 game? He got a THREE!!!! Your post was biased, not theoryspark’s rating of Romney. Look at the facts.

  33. Elliot, I agree Russ is more up to date on the issues than Obama. I think that since Obama has only been on the national scene for like 5 or 6 years, he should get a three and Russ a four.

  34. Russ Feingold (My final ratings for attributes)

    L=4 I=3 E=3 IF=4 Charisma=3 Stam=3 Debating=4

    Stamina: Feingold looked well rested in PAC video.

  35. Elliot, I agree with your ratings completely.

    By the way, why is Newt Gingrich’s integrity a three? I would think it would be a 2 considering his marital problems.

  36. Also, responding to E’s post…If most voters don’t trust Romney, then why is he consistently polling competively with President Obama???

  37. @PW, “By the way, why is Newt Gingrich’s integrity a three? I would think it would be a 2 considering his marital problems.”

    Because he seems to have integrity in his policy views. He’s the opposite of a Romney.

  38. Gov. Haley Barbour

    Le=4, In=2, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=3

    Any ideas for Gov. Haley Barbour, Sen. Rick Santorum, Herman Cain, and Rep. Ron Paul?

  39. 270Admin, so now integrity is being judged entirely on flopping issues? So Bill Clinton has exceptional integrity? I thought issues were under ISSUE FAMILARITY NOT INTEGRITY!!!

  40. Utah under Jon Huntsman Jr. was rated the best managed state in America by the Pew Center. Huntsman would have been a two term governor of a state. He should be given a 5 for leadership.

  41. I agree with what Elliot put down for Haley Barbour. He did show superior leadership skills during 2005 with Hurricane Katrina. I think if anyone deserves a 5 for leadership, it would be Barbour with the possible exception of Hunstman or Daniels.
    Rick Santorum I also agree with. His public image was really beaten up after his loss to Bob Casey Jr. in 2006.
    About Ron Paul: Even though this guy may not seem charistmatic, he does have the ability to get crowds fired up. I have watched some of his rallies on television and its pretty impressive.

  42. @PW, “so now integrity is being judged entirely on flopping issues?”

    It’s based on “personal and campaign integrity,” which includes issue integrity. Issue integrity is different from issue familiarity.

  43. @Elliot, why do you have Santorum’s In=2?

    I’ve added Barbour and Santorum, differences from your rankings: Barbour Le=4 (I’m not convinced he’s a 5), Santorum In=3.

  44. 270 admin, Santorum made several controversial comments. Santorum’s Pennsylvania residency was also questioned during the 2006 campaign.

  45. Since 2001, Santorum spent most of his time in Virginia not Pennsylvania. He is supposed live in Pennsylvania not Virginia. He has made controversial comments about homosexuality.

  46. @Elliot, my question is: why does this show low integrity? If anything, it shows that he’s willing to say what he believes, i.e., has higher integrity.

  47. It shows low integrity because it shows that Senator Santorum discriminates against certain people who were born that way and did not choose to be born that way. Santorum says he not have a problem with homosexuals, but has a problem with homosexual acts. It is an oxymoron.

  48. It’s a standard Christian way of thinking on this matter (“love the sinner, hate the sin”). One could argue that Santorum isn’t being honest – that is, he hates both the sinner and the sin. That’s a different argument, though.

  49. That seems to me to be an argument about the proper interpretation of the Constitution – not about Santorum’s integrity.

  50. Santorum could not seperate his religious views from his political ones.

    Defination of discriminate

    Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, sex, or age

  51. I’m not following you here. Santorum wants the government to (in his view, justly and judiciously) discriminate against homosexual behavior. He can have complete integrity in doing so. You are confusing concepts.

  52. I think a good size of the American People would believe that if candidate X discriminates against a certain group, that makes candidate X has low integrity.

    Gov. Haley Barbour said bad things about African Americans, did that contribute to his low ranking integrity?

    What is integrity based on: If a candidate is consistent with their political views? Personal life? Whether a good size of the American People views something negative about a person past?

  53. What did Barbour say that was bad about African-Americans?

    Integrity is both personal and campaign integrity. The former is meant to encapsulate them keeping their promises, the latter the same in the political sphere as well as ideological consistency (as opposed to opportunism).

    In this sense, if someone believes something is good, and adheres to it regardless of political cost, this would indicate higher integrity, not lower.

  54. Gov. Barbour remembers desegregation “not being that bad” and he wanted to put a founder of the KKK on a license plate.

  55. Thanks for that. To answer your question, no, his views on African-Americans weren’t why he has a 2 for Integrity – that’s due to his lobbying past. That might change as I learn more about the specifics of his lobbying and his current views.

    A comment on the issues you mentioned: 1) From what I can tell, he was talking about his own childhood, not about segregation in general. 2) He initially refused to condemn the movement to put Nathan Forrest on a license plate, saying instead the movement was going nowhere. He later used stronger language, saying he would veto it if it ever actually got to his desk as Governor.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49935.html

  56. Here’s some attributes for some the candidates on the candidate list…

    David Petraeus…L-4…L-4…E-2…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-4
    Rick Santorum…L-3…I-2…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-2
    Marco Rubio…L-3…I-4…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-4…D-4
    Jeb Bush…L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-4…S-3…D-3

    Democrats:

    Mike Gravel…L-3…I-4…E-4..IF-2…C-2…S-4…D-3

  57. Sec. Hillary Clinton (OFF) …L-3…I-3…E-4…IF-5…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Ralph Nader (OFF) …L-3…I-4…E-2…IF-4…C-2…S-3…D-4

    Mayor Rudy Giuliani (OFF) …L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-4…S-3…D-3

    Sen. Evan Bayh (OFF) …L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-3…D-3

  58. By the way why is Mark Warner refered as Governor instead of Senator (his current job)?

    Gov. Mark Warner (OFF) …L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Sen. Marco Rubio (OFF) …L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-5…S-5…D-4

    Rep. Mike Pence (OFF) …L-3…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-4

    Gov. Bobby Jindal (OFF) …L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-5…D-4

    Gov. Bobby Jindal (OFF) …L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-3

  59. Sarah Palin…L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-2…C-4…S-4…D-3 (I know this may appear biased, but Palin’s campaigning style and ability helped the McCain ticket in 08. I personally disagree with her on some issues, but look at this way. Her Governship continually registered 50%+ Approval ratings and she did pass some reforms. About experience, experience isn’t all about being in a work office. She has some interesting experiences outside the governor’s mansion. She also worked on Frank Murkowski’s cabinet during his governship. Her debating did exceed expectations in the debates with Biden and she did come away, for a time, more popular than the current VP. As Bill Clinton said, “Don’t underestimate her.” I’m just trying to take a blank page and figure it out.)

    Herman Cain…L-3…I-4…E-2…IF-2…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Mark Warner…L-4…I-4…E-4…IF-3…C-2…S-4…D-4

    Bobby Jindal…L-5…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-5…S-4…D-4 (His leadership during the Hurricanes Katrina and Gustav as well as the Oil spill says pretty much everything. So does his refusal to accept bailout money. He has really positive integrity. He has average experience. His knowledge on the issues is impressive. He is super charismatic…the media overreacted to his response to Obama’s Stimulus speech in 09. He has good stamina and he debates quite well.)

    Hillary Clinton…L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Rudy Giuliani…L-4…I-2…E-3…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-2

    Ron Paul…L-3…I-5…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-2

    Rick Perry…L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-2…C-4…S-4…D-3

    Jesse Ventura…L-4…I-2…E-3…IF-3…C-4..S-3…D-2

    Evan Bayh…L-4…I-4…E-4…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-3

  60. Hey POLLWONK, don’t you think Russ Feingold and Hillary Clinton deserve 5s for Issue Familiarity if Newt Gingrich gets a 5 for Issue Familiarity?

  61. Elliot,

    LOL!

    Newt Gingrich is pretty shrewd (he learned his lesson in the government shutdown of 95). I personally feel Hillary, Russ, and Newt are on the same level when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of Washington. I feel Newt should get a 4 for IF, Hillary a 3 or 4 and Russ a 4

    Matt

  62. 270 Admin,

    Since you’ve switched the goalpost regarding the integrity issue, if you are going to include the 1992 scenario in the upcoming game…is Bill Clinton going to have exceptional integrity? How about if John Edwards ran for the Presidency in 2012? Would he have a 4 as his integrity?

  63. POLLWONK,

    Russ Feingold, Newt Gingrich, Hillary Clinton give more detailed answers during interviews, debates, ect than the other potential candidates. Hilliary Clinton talked with a great amount of detail about her plans on certain issues. Then Senator Obama was very vague and kept of saying the words “change and yes we can” all the time. Newt Gingrich is the only Republican that I have seen so far that actually said that President Reagan raised taxes.

  64. “I personally feel Hillary, Russ, and Newt are on the same level when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of Washington.”

    Are you talking about being part of the “establishment?” A person who is part the establishment knows the “ins and outs of Washington.”

    Russ Feingold and Ron Paul are part of the “anti-establishment” while someone like President Obama, Speaker Gingrich, and SoS Clinton are part of the “establishment”.

    IF is the versatility and depth in understanding relevant issues. It has nothing knowing the “ins and outs of Washington.”

  65. @PW, “Since you’ve switched the goalpost regarding the integrity issue, if you are going to include the 1992 scenario in the upcoming game…is Bill Clinton going to have exceptional integrity? How about if John Edwards ran for the Presidency in 2012? Would he have a 4 as his integrity?”

    How has the goalpost regarding Integrity been switched? Personal and ideological integrity have always been the basis of the attribute. If Edwards ran in 2012, he would get a 1 or 2, probably.

  66. @270admin, I don’t want to rude, but what is with the lack of Candidate Attributes
    updates? Surely, you could consider adding some of the candidates that POLLWORK and I aren’t arguing with each other on?

  67. Elliot, I agree with you about Russ, Hillary, and Newt. I also agree with you all the way about Obama. Even though he had all the charisma a person could ask for, he was basically a blank slate that people wrote their views on. He had goals, but no clear solution. It helped him get ELECTED, but will not work for his reelection campaign. (He can’t really run the message of “CHANGE” again can he?)
    I think Russ and Hillary and Newt all deserve 4s. Obama deserves a 3.

  68. One correction though…Ronald Reagan did raise taxes, but at the same time cut taxes by a larger margin.

  69. 270 Admin,

    Bobby Jindal is on your candidate list. Elliot and I have submitted suggestions. Yet Jindal hasn’t gotten his attributes rated yet.
    Also, you now have put John Thune on possibilities. You said that unless they are definitly being included you weren’t going to put up their attributes. But Thune does have his attributes up there. If that’s the case, then I think that the Donald Trump and Jeb Bush reccomendations I made should also be included.

  70. POLLWONK, I agree that Obama deserves a 3 for IF he said Social Security adds to the U.S. debt (It doesn’t until 2037 and then it pays 77% percent of benefits), couldn’t grasp the need for financial regulation reform (Glass-Steagall).
    Feingold, Hillary, and Newt iunderstand the issues far better than Obama and have a leg up on their potential competitors. They are deserve 5 for IF.

  71. @270admin Why is Huntsman’s Le only a 4? Utah was rated the best managed state in America by the Pew Center when Huntsman was governor.

  72. Haley Barbour…L-4…I-2…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-3= 23
    Chris Christie…L-5…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-5…S-4…D-4= 28

  73. 270 Admin,

    You made a mistake with John Thune’s ratings…He’s a 22 not a 23… addition mistake

    Here’s my rating for him…

    L-3…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-4…3=24

  74. @PW,

    “Bobby Jindal is on your candidate list. Elliot and I have submitted suggestions. Yet Jindal hasn’t gotten his attributes rated yet.”

    Yup, I’ll get to it when I have a second.

    “Also, you now have put John Thune on possibilities. You said that unless they are definitly being included you weren’t going to put up their attributes. But Thune does have his attributes up there.”

    Thune’s attributes were done before he announced he wasn’t running.

    @Elliot,

    “Why is Huntsman’s Le only a 4?”

    Because I am still becoming familiar with Huntsman.

    @PW,

    Any reason in particular for Barbour’s St=4?

  75. Bobby Jindal is alot younger than all of the other candidates. He would only be 40 in the 2012 Presidential race.

  76. Why is does Bobby Jindal have attributes before someone like Russ Feingold, Ron Paul, Howard Dean, and Bernie Sanders? Governor Jindal has stated repeatedly that he NOT running for President and there no a significant draft movement calling him to run for President.

  77. First off, Jindal is young. With youth almost always comes stamina. Secondly, he showed stamina during Hurricanes Katrina as US Representative, Gustav as Governor of Lousiana, and the Gulf Oil Spill.

  78. Roemer is a person who could run but has not gained any traction so far.

    Gov. Buddy Roemer……L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-3…C-4…S-3…D-4

  79. Sen. Judd Gregg …L-4…I-2…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-4

    Gov. George Pataki …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-3…C-3…S-3…D-4

    Donald Trump …L-4…I-2…E-2…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-4

    Mike Gravel …L-…I-…E-…IF-…C-…S-…D-

    Lou Dobbs …L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-3…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Gen. David Petraeus …L-4…I-4…E-3…IF3-…C-4…S-5…D-4

    Sen. Jim DeMint …L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-3…D-4

    Gov. Jeb Bush …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-4

    Sen. Olympia Snowe …L-3…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Gov. Rick Perry …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-3

  80. Lou Dobbs…L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-3
    Rick Perry…L-4…I-2…E-4…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-3
    Judd Greg…L-3…I-2…E-4…IF-4…C-2…S-3…D-4
    Jim DeMint- L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-5…D-4

    Alan Grayson…L-3…I-2…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-2…D-2
    Alvin Greene- L-4…I-1…E-2…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-3

  81. VP Joseph Biden …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-5

    Rep. Alan Grayson …L-3…I-2…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-2…D-3

    Rep. Anthony Weiner… L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-5…D-5

    Rep. Tom Perriello …L-3…I-4…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-3

  82. Sen. Kelly Ayotte …L-3…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Sen. John Cornyn …L-4…I-4…E-3… IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Gov. John Kasich …L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Sec. of State Condoleezza Rice …L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Gov. Rick Scott …L-4…I-2…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-3…D-4

    Sen. Joe Manchin …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-3

  83. David Petreaus-L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-3…C-4…S-5…D-4

    Kelly Ayotte- L-3…I-4…E-3…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-3
    John Cornyn- L-4…I-4…E-4…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-3
    John Kasich- L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-4
    Condoleeza Rice- L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-5…D-4

    Joe Biden…L-4…I-2…E-4…IF-3…C-4…S-3…D-4

  84. Sen. Russ Feingold (OFF) …L-4…I-4…Ex-3… IF-5…Ch-3…St-3…D-4 =26

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (OFF) …L-4…I-4…E-4…IF-5…C-3…S-3…D-4 =27

  85. @270admin What is the deal with Integrity? The highest rating so far is a 3? Surely there some 4s out there (Jindal,Thune).

  86. Gen. Petraeus added – I’m not sold on him having above average charisma. If someone has links that support this, by all means post them.

  87. Bobby Jindal chose not speak at the 2008 Republican National Convention and instead did his job and watched over his state during Hurricane Gustav. He chose to take care of his state over having a speech at RNC.

    Although Senator Russ Feingold has been divorced twice, Senator Russ Feingold followed through his “contract” with the people of Wisconsin.

    1. I will rely on Wisconsin citizens for most of my contributions.

    2. I will live in Middleton, Wisconsin. My children will go to school here and I will spend most of my time here in Wisconsin.

    3. I will accept no pay raise during my six-year term in office.

    4. I will hold a “Listening Session” in each of Wisconsin’s 72 counties each year of my six-year term in office.

    5. I will hire the majority of my Senate staff from individuals who are from Wisconsin or have Wisconsin backgrounds.

    Russ Feingold has received 90% of donations from individual contributions. http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cycle=Career&type=I&cid=N00000036&newMem=N

  88. Both Russ Feingold and Berie Sanders vote princible rather than party lines.They both voted against TARP and the Tax Cut Deal.

  89. I agree with Elliot’s points. Russ would be a strong candidate…Bernie Sanders, eh, not so much. But still BS could do some damage.

    Bobby Jindal deserves better ratings. His speech against Obama’s stimulus was way overbashed by the media, like Bill Clinton’s ’88 convention speech. I think JIndal deserves a 4 for charisma and a 5 for stamina.

    Petraeus also deserves better ratings. His testimony before Congress in 06 (i believe) impressed many senators with his debating ability. Some even say that he saved Bush’s surge with his excellent communications.

  90. I’m pretty excited about this game! I’m patient for the wait as you’ve never failed to deliver a great product.

    Could you please include Russ Feingold as an OFF candidate, at least? I think that his running is a definite possibility as he just started the Progressives United PAC–it might be good evidence of an intent to challenge Obama in the primary or at least an intent to build up his profile a bit.

    Anyway, that’s the only comment (sort of…) that I have. Looks great!

  91. @Pike,

    Feedback noted. Feingold seems a popular alternative to Obama, so I’ve moved him to the Democratic included list (OFF).

  92. @anthony_270admin

    Why is Russ Feingold’s IF a 4? Feingold’s IF is far closer to Gingrich than he is with the other 4s.

    Russ Feingold D=3? Russ Feingold was good debater against Ron Johnson during the 2010 race.

    Russ Feingold may have not been a governor, but he is a leader in the Progressive movement and anti-war supporters.

  93. @anthony_270admin

    Rep. Michele Bachmann has a four for leadership for being “one of the highest-profile leaders of the ‘Tea Party’,” while Feingold is one of the highest-profile leader of the progressive movement and only gets a 3.

  94. I agree with Elliot about Russ Feingold. He is a very shrewd and successful politician who is very knowledgable.

    L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-4…D-4 = 26

  95. I agree with Elliot. Russ does deserve some better ratings.

    Also, I think Dennis Kucinich should be a candidate. First off, he’s raising money on his website right now to increase and maintain his voice in congress. He said that Obama’s bombing of Libya without Congressional consent was impeachable and unconstitutional. Considering how he’s emerged so much here’s where I think he should rank…

    L-4…I-3…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-3=23

  96. @POLLWONK

    Integrity: Feingold ‘s Integrity should be 4 because he VERY princibled. I=4

    If anyone deverves a 5 for Issue Familiarity its Russ Feingold. He more than ANYONE has versatility and depth in understanding relevant issues. IF=5

    Charisma- Fair enough. If it 1992, Feingold would have denifinatey been a 5. C=4

    Stamina- Feingold was know to have great stamina in first three senate races. However in 2010 his age caught up to him. S=3

    Debating: We Agree! 🙂

  97. Sen. Russ Feingold (OFF) …L-4…I-4…Ex-3… IF-5…Ch-4…St-3…D-4 =27

    Or

    Sen. Russ Feingold (OFF) …L-4…I-4…Ex-3… IF-5…Ch-4…St-2…D-4 =26

  98. Issue Familiarity scale

    1- Someone who knows nothing about the issues

    2- Someone who knows little about the issues (Palin, Bachmann)

    3- Someone who knows the national average about the issues (Thune, Santorum)

    4- Someone who knows above the national average about the Issues (Romney, Huntsman, President Obama who is a 3 but knows secrets that only the President knows)

    5-Someone who knows WAY above the national average about the Issues and eats it up (Feingold, Gingrich, and possibly Hillary Clinton)

    There is a substantial difference between a 4 for a 5. Russ Feingold stands way out that he deserves a 5.

  99. @POLLWONK

    Remember how Integrity is judged by personal and campaign integrity.

    Russ Feingold campaign integrity is 5 while his personal integrity is 3. If you take the average of them you get a 4. if his personal integrity is a 2 it could be 3 or a 4. Generally I was taught to round up, so I get 4.

  100. @POLLWONK
    We had a discussion on the IF of Russ Feingold, Newt Gingrich, and Hillary Clinton.

    POLLWONK :“Newt Gingrich is pretty shrewd (he learned his lesson in the government shutdown of 95). I personally feel Hillary, Russ, and Newt are on the same level when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of Washington. I feel Newt should get a 4 for IF, Hillary a 3 or 4 and Russ a 4”

    Elliot: “Russ Feingold, Newt Gingrich, Hillary Clinton give more detailed answers during interviews, debates, ect than the other potential candidates. Hillary Clinton talked with a great amount of detail about her plans on certain issues. Then Senator Obama was very vague and kept of saying the words “change and yes we can” all the time. Newt Gingrich is the only Republican that I have seen so far that actually said that President Reagan raised taxes”

    “I personally feel Hillary, Russ, and Newt are on the same level when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of Washington.” Are you talking about being part of the “establishment?” A person who is part the establishment knows the “ins and outs of Washington.” Russ Feingold and Ron Paul are part of the “anti-establishment” while someone like President Obama, Speaker Gingrich, and SoS Clinton are part of the “establishment”. IF is the versatility and depth in understanding relevant issues. It has nothing knowing the “ins and outs of Washington.”

    POLLWONK: “Elliot, I agree with you about Russ, Hillary, and Newt. I also agree with you all the way about Obama. Even though he had all the charisma a person could ask for, he was basically a blank slate that people wrote their views on. He had goals, but no clear solution. It helped him get ELECTED, but will not work for his reelection campaign. (He can’t really run the message of “CHANGE” again can he?)
    I think Russ and Hillary and Newt all deserve 4s. Obama deserves a 3”

    “One correction though…Ronald Reagan did raise taxes, but at the same time cut taxes by a larger margin.”

    POLLWONK, you agreed that Russ Feingold, Newt Gingrich, and Hillary Clinton should have the same IF (“personally feel Hillary, Russ, and Newt are on the same level”) and agreed with my statement about Feingold, Gingrich, and Clinton giving more detailed answers than the other candidates, then shouldn’t you agree with me that Feingold (and Clinton) would get 5 for IF since Gingrich has a 5 IF.

  101. Elliot:

    I get where you’re coming from. I think all three (Newt, Hillary, and Russ) should get 5s. While I understand what you mean by his principles, I think that Russ’s integrity fits a three.

    I agree with your first rating of his stamina. I mean, like you said, he does townhall meetings in every county every year. THAT TAKES STAMINA!

  102. @POLLWONK

    Russ Feingold’s integrity comes down to the way you round, you round down, I round up.

    I would like Russ’ stamina at 3, but he was noticeably a weaker campaigner in 2010 than he was in previous campaigns. If Russ runs for President in 2012 (which I believe is a possibility because the Democratic base and the Democrats in Congress are fed up with Obama) we should pay extra attention to Russ’ stamina on the campaign trail.

  103. @anthony_270admin

    I believe that POLLWONK and I have laid out a excellent case for improving Russ Feingold’s attributes. Please tell us which attributes need a better agrument for the them to improve.

  104. @Elliot re: Feingold, the feedback is noted. I’ll be more carefully considering his attributes in the future, and when that occurs I might adjust them.

  105. Regarding my suggestion of the inclusion of Marco Rubio in the game, here’s my rating for him (I submitted one earlier, but I’ve come away with different conclusions)

    L-4…I-4…E-2…IF-3…C-5…S-4…D-4= 26

  106. Elliot:
    My final rating for Russ Feingold (At least for now)

    L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-5…C-3…S-3…D-4=26

  107. Final Rating for

    Sen. Russ Feingold (OFF) …L-4…I-4…E-3… IF-5…C-4…S-3…D-4 =27

    @POLLWORK

    C-4 because Feingold can get a crowd revved up

  108. @POLLWONK

    Hillary’s IF is 5. In the 2008 primary debates, Hillary Clinton explained her positions in the debates better and knew WAY more than then-Senator Obama on the Issues.

  109. Russ Feingold does not have I=3, he has I=4

    The reason is he is VERY principled (quite possibly the MOST principled public servents of our time), he NOT owned by the banks unlike a good 85-90 percent of the politicians, but he was divored twiced which prevents him getting a 5.

    Take Gingrich for example, he was divored twice and he cheated on them. He also flip-flops on issues if he believes that it would help in a campaign and his I=3.

    Russ Feingold deserves 4 for intergity. His intergity is higher than Gingrich.

  110. “The reason is he is VERY principled (quite possibly the MOST principled public servents of our time), he NOT owned by the banks unlike a good 85-90 percent of the politicians, but he was divored twiced which prevents him getting a 5.”

    Yes, Russ is principled. I agree he was a hard worker. However, I don’t really see anything shining outside that category. If principles were going to define integrity, then pretty much every politician (with the possible exclusion of John Edwards) would have 5s for integrity.

    “Take Gingrich for example, he was divored twice and he cheated on them. He also flip-flops on issues if he believes that it would help in a campaign and his I=3.”

    Yes, Gingrich did cheat twice and is married to his third wife. I get that. However,by the time 2012 rolls around, that will be 14 years ago! And I don’t understand what you mean by Newt’s flipflopping. Newt never flipflopped on any issue. He has been the same aggressive Newt.

    My ratings…
    Russ Feingold= L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-5…C-3…S-4…D-4=27
    Newt Gingrich= L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-5…C-3>4…S-4…D-4=27

  111. “If principles were going to define integrity, then pretty much every politician (with the possible exclusion of John Edwards) would have 5s for integrity.”

    That totally not true at all. The banks and corporations own 85-90 percent of the politicians and get tax cuts and get deregulation of businesses from them. Most politicians would not get I=4 because they don’t vote their conscience or flip flop.
    Russ Feingold votes his consience and doesn’t flip flop.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/30/john-mccain-russ-feingold_n_789897.html

    “And I don’t understand what you mean by Newt’s flipflopping. Newt never flipflopped on any issue. He has been the same aggressive Newt.”

    Ah…No…

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0327/Newt-Gingrich-s-flip-flops

  112. “If principles were going to define integrity, then pretty much every politician (with the possible exclusion of John Edwards) would have 5s for integrity.”

    That totally not true at all. The banks and corporations own 85-90 percent of the politicians and get tax cuts and get deregulation of businesses from them. Most politicians would not get I=4 because they don’t vote their conscience or flip flop.
    Russ Feingold votes his consience and doesn’t flip flop.

    “And I don’t understand what you mean by Newt’s flipflopping. Newt never flipflopped on any issue. He has been the same aggressive Newt.”

    Ah…No…

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0327/Newt-Gingrich-s-flip-flops

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

  113. Herb Kohl on Russ Feingold http://usforruss.com/?p=52

    “He took a lot of unpopular positions over the years. Most notable was his sole opposition to the Patriot Act. He stood up for his ideals when it would have been easy to brush them aside. But that is the kind of person Russ is. He was never willing to sacrifice his principles to do the politically easy thing. Our country is safer because of his work… He leaves the Senate, but I hope he doesn’t leave public service. His character and intelligence are needed by his community, state and country.”

    Tom Harkin on Russ Feingold http://usforruss.com/?p=55

    Senator Feingold has been an outspoken champion of working Americans–fighting for safer workplaces, the right to organize, stronger public schools, better access to higher education and health care. He has always stood up for Wisconsin’s family farmers and rural communities.

    Senator Feingold has accomplished important and even historic things during his tenure as U.S. Senator. But, in my book, the highest accolade is simply that Russ Feingold is a good and decent person, with a passion for fairness, social justice, and honest government.

    For me, it has been a great honor to be his friend and colleague for the last 18 years. Our friendship, of course, will continue – as will Russ Feingold’s fight for the progressive causes we both believe in.

    Our great friend Paul Wellstone used to say that ‘the future belongs to those with passion.’ By that definition, Russ Feingold has a wonderful future ahead of him.”

    ]Senator Boxer on Russ Feingold

    “Over the years, Senator Feingold has distinguished himself as a leading expert on foreign and domestic policy who is willing to work across party lines to get the job done, whether it was reforming our Nation’s campaign finance laws or working to end the atrocities committed by Ugandan rebels in the Lord’s Resistance Army.

    I have had the privilege of sitting next to Senator Feingold in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I have been proud to witness how, as the chair of the Subcommittee on African Affairs, he has led the Senate in recognizing and addressing many of Africa’s unique issues and challenges. He was one of the first to speak out about the genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan. He has advocated for an end to the illicit mining of conflict minerals that support armed conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And he has placed a spotlight on drug trafficking in West Africa, the threat of terrorism in Somalia, and the affects of global diseases such as malaria on African populations.

    Senator Feingold is a great reformer, taking the lead on campaign finance reform and on the Army Corps of Engineers.

    Senator Feingold has been such an incredible champion for human rights, and I am personally grateful for his work on women’s rights, particularly his commitment to combating violence against women and girls worldwide.

    His passion, expertise, and dedication to these issues are unmatched.”

  114. Herb Kohl on Russ Feingold
    “He took a lot of unpopular positions over the years. Most notable was his sole opposition to the Patriot Act. He stood up for his ideals when it would have been easy to brush them aside. But that is the kind of person Russ is. He was never willing to sacrifice his principles to do the politically easy thing. Our country is safer because of his work… He leaves the Senate, but I hope he doesn’t leave public service. His character and intelligence are needed by his community, state and country.”

    Tom Harkin on Russ Feingold
    Senator Feingold has been an outspoken champion of working Americans–fighting for safer workplaces, the right to organize, stronger public schools, better access to higher education and health care. He has always stood up for Wisconsin’s family farmers and rural communities.

    Senator Feingold has accomplished important and even historic things during his tenure as U.S. Senator. But, in my book, the highest accolade is simply that Russ Feingold is a good and decent person, with a passion for fairness, social justice, and honest government.

    For me, it has been a great honor to be his friend and colleague for the last 18 years. Our friendship, of course, will continue – as will Russ Feingold’s fight for the progressive causes we both believe in.

    Our great friend Paul Wellstone used to say that ‘the future belongs to those with passion.’ By that definition, Russ Feingold has a wonderful future ahead of him.”

    ]Senator Boxer on Russ Feingold

    “Over the years, Senator Feingold has distinguished himself as a leading expert on foreign and domestic policy who is willing to work across party lines to get the job done, whether it was reforming our Nation’s campaign finance laws or working to end the atrocities committed by Ugandan rebels in the Lord’s Resistance Army.

    I have had the privilege of sitting next to Senator Feingold in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I have been proud to witness how, as the chair of the Subcommittee on African Affairs, he has led the Senate in recognizing and addressing many of Africa’s unique issues and challenges. He was one of the first to speak out about the genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan. He has advocated for an end to the illicit mining of conflict minerals that support armed conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And he has placed a spotlight on drug trafficking in West Africa, the threat of terrorism in Somalia, and the affects of global diseases such as malaria on African populations.

    Senator Feingold is a great reformer, taking the lead on campaign finance reform and on the Army Corps of Engineers.

    Senator Feingold has been such an incredible champion for human rights, and I am personally grateful for his work on women’s rights, particularly his commitment to combating violence against women and girls worldwide.

    His passion, expertise, and dedication to these issues are unmatched.”

  115. “If principles were going to define integrity, then pretty much every politician (with the possible exclusion of John Edwards) would have 5s for integrity.”

    That totally not true at all. The banks and corporations own 85-90 percent of the politicians and get tax cuts and get deregulation of businesses from them. Most politicians would not get I=4 because they don’t vote their conscience or flip flop.
    Russ Feingold votes his consience and doesn’t flip flop.

    “And I don’t understand what you mean by Newt’s flipflopping. Newt never flipflopped on any issue. He has been the same aggressive Newt.”

    Ah…No…

  116. Elliot,

    Herb Kohl on Russ Feingold
    “He took a lot of unpopular positions over the years. Most notable was his sole opposition to the Patriot Act. He stood up for his ideals when it would have been easy to brush them aside. But that is the kind of person Russ is. He was never willing to sacrifice his principles to do the politically easy thing. Our country is safer because of his work… He leaves the Senate, but I hope he doesn’t leave public service. His character and intelligence are needed by his community, state and country.”

    Tom Harkin on Russ Feingold
    Senator Feingold has been an outspoken champion of working Americans–fighting for safer workplaces, the right to organize, stronger public schools, better access to higher education and health care. He has always stood up for Wisconsin’s family farmers and rural communities.

    Senator Feingold has accomplished important and even historic things during his tenure as U.S. Senator. But, in my book, the highest accolade is simply that Russ Feingold is a good and decent person, with a passion for fairness, social justice, and honest government.

    For me, it has been a great honor to be his friend and colleague for the last 18 years. Our friendship, of course, will continue – as will Russ Feingold’s fight for the progressive causes we both believe in.

    Our great friend Paul Wellstone used to say that ‘the future belongs to those with passion.’ By that definition, Russ Feingold has a wonderful future ahead of him.”

    ]Senator Boxer on Russ Feingold

    “Over the years, Senator Feingold has distinguished himself as a leading expert on foreign and domestic policy who is willing to work across party lines to get the job done, whether it was reforming our Nation’s campaign finance laws or working to end the atrocities committed by Ugandan rebels in the Lord’s Resistance Army.

    I have had the privilege of sitting next to Senator Feingold in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I have been proud to witness how, as the chair of the Subcommittee on African Affairs, he has led the Senate in recognizing and addressing many of Africa’s unique issues and challenges. He was one of the first to speak out about the genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan. He has advocated for an end to the illicit mining of conflict minerals that support armed conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And he has placed a spotlight on drug trafficking in West Africa, the threat of terrorism in Somalia, and the affects of global diseases such as malaria on African populations.

    Senator Feingold is a great reformer, taking the lead on campaign finance reform and on the Army Corps of Engineers.

    Senator Feingold has been such an incredible champion for human rights, and I am personally grateful for his work on women’s rights, particularly his commitment to combating violence against women and girls worldwide.

    His passion, expertise, and dedication to these issues are unmatched.”

    2 Quick Questions:
    a.) Aren’t all those people who commented on Russ Feingold Democrats from the far left wing?
    b.) Was the word integrity mentioned once in those quotes you gave?

    Unless I actually hear someone say that Russ has exceptional integrity, I think he deserves a 3.

  117. “In his time in the Senate, Russ Feingold, every day and in every way, had the courage of his convictions,” McCain said. “And though I am quite a few years older than Russ, and have served in this body longer than he has, I confess I have always felt he was my superior in that cardinal virtue.”

    “I can’t do justice in these remarks to all of Russ’ many qualities or express completely how much I think this institution benefited from his service here and how much I benefited from knowing him. I lack the eloquence. I don’t think he is replaceable. We would all do well to keep his example in our minds as we serve our constituents and country and convictions. We couldn’t have a better role model.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/30/john-mccain-russ-feingold_n_789897.html

  118. @anthony_270admin

    Here are two reasons why Russ Feingold deserves a 5 for Issue Familiarity

    Russ Feingold was one of four senators to vote against the Interstate Banking Act which led to financial collapse of 2008, he was one of eight senators to vote against Gramm Leach Bliley that removed Glass-Steague which helped lead the Country into financial collapse of 2008.

    Senator Feingold wanted to bring back Glass-Steague in financial reform bill and wanted to get rid of Fannie-May and Freddie-Mac.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/22/878470/-WSR:-Feingold-holding-out-for-strong-bill

  119. Elliot,

    Where does it say in the evidence from McCain that Russ is principled or has high integrity?

  120. “In his time in the Senate, Russ Feingold, every day and in every way, had the courage of his convictions,” McCain said. “And though I am quite a few years older than Russ, and have served in this body longer than he has, I confess I have always felt he was my superior in that cardinal virtue.”

  121. Elliot,

    I think we agree Russ and Newt Gingrich both deserve 5s for IF.
    Integrity…Its looking a little more convincing…I’m a little up in the air about it though…

    I think he deserves a raise when it comes to leadership. A 4 would suit him.

  122. @anthony_270admin,POLLWONK

    Russ Feingold deserves 3 or maybe a 4 for charisma. He is not uncharismatic. He debates well, so 4 for debating.

  123. Russ Feingold deserves 3 or maybe a 4 for charisma. He is not uncharismatic. He debates well, so 4 for debating.

    I agree…Russ is a well informed politician, has a debating style like Bill Clinton, and strong grassroots supporters. He should definitly be improved.

  124. @anthony_270admin you defined Leadership as “leadership abilities and skills, often reflected by executive experience”

    Russ Feingold is the exception to “often reflected by executive experience.” He has shown ‘very exceptional’ leadership by sticking to his princibles and doing what he thinks is right. Senator John McCain said that Russ Feingold is a “inspiring example of civic courage”

    Russ Feingold deserves a 4 in leadership

    http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_89e01d6c-58a1-5b3c-b83d-e93fccc10d08.html

  125. @Elliot

    I would just point out that standing for one’s convictions is but one piece of leadership ability. For example, Ron Paul has strong convictions (which I personally admire), but he’s not exactly what I’d call a good leader.

    Still, I do think Feingold should probably have his leadership attribute be increased to 4.

  126. @Brian

    For example, Ron Paul has strong convictions (which I personally admire), but he’s not exactly what I’d call a good leader

    Ron Paul may not look like a leader, but he was the northern star of the Tea-Party movement and helped lead it into prominence. He also did lead the opposition AGAINST Bush’s troop surge, reaching across party lines and assembling both Republicans and Democrats against the bill. I understand where you’re coming from though.

    Pollwonk

  127. @anthony_270admin

    Out of the three senators and representive (Santorum, Feingold, Thune, and Bachmann), Feingold is the only one with a major legislative accomplishment (McCain-Feingold). Feingold stands out from the other legislators in terms of leadership. Senators can show leadership and Senator Feingold is a good example.

  128. @Elliot

    Out of the three senators and representive (Santorum, Feingold, Thune, and Bachmann), Feingold is the only one with a major legislative accomplishment (McCain-Feingold). Feingold stands out from the other legislators in terms of leadership. Senators can show leadership and Senator Feingold is a good example.

    I agree Russ has quality leadership. However, I feel Bachmann deserves her 4. Bachmann is the leader and founder of the TeaParty in Congress.She also ordered a thorough look at Bush’s 2007 Troop Surge. Plus, she has really assumed control over the Tea Party. Palin being associated with the Tea-Party and the Tea Party needed a leader with a blank slate or mostly unblemished past. Bachmann stepped into that role.

    Bachmann…L-4…I-4…E-2…IF-2…C-4…S-4…D-3

  129. @anthony_270admin

    Obama is the President, but is a terrible negotiator and caves into the Republicans on almost everything especially on the budget. He really a weak leader. He doesn’t even defend his “own” positions. Russ Feingold actually defends his positions and has led on certain issues

    Executive experience should not decide Leadership.

    Obama L=2
    Feingold L=4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euPCnfNdlTU&feature=feedu

  130. In the Primaries Forever 2008 2004 Scenario Senator Chafee had a Leadership=4. So it is not impossible for a senator to have a 4 for leadership. Senator Feingold is far more accomplished in terms of leadership now than Senator Chaffe was 2004.

  131. From the David Gergen article

    “Obama said in his speech that we must reform the tax system to produce more revenues. How? Let Congress figure it out, he said. We must limit the growth of Medicare to GDP plus a half percent a year. How? Leave that to an Independent Payment Advisory Board. We need built-in guarantees to reduce the deficits. How? Leave that to a failsafe mechanism that will automatically kick in around 2014 (never mind that Obama’s former budget director says it could be unreliable).

    We have been here before. Writing a stimulus bill? Leave that to Congress. Coming up with a health care plan? Leave that to Congress. Asserting control over Gadhafi? Leave that to NATO.”

  132. @anthony_270admin

    I think it is time to update Sen. Russ Feingold, and add Mr. Donald Trump, Rep Ron Paul, and Sec. Hillary Clinton

    Sen. Russ Feingold …L-4…I-4…Ex-3… IF-5…Ch-3…St-3…D-4

    Mr. Donald Trump …L-4…I-2…E-2…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-4

    Rep. Ron Paul… L=4…I=4…E=2…IF=4…C=3…S=3…D=3

    Sec. Hillary Clinton …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-5…C-3…S-4…D-4

  133. http://www.alan.com/2011/02/03/one-man-was-100-right-about-everything-going-on-in-egypt-russ-feingold/

    “He used his knowledge to propose a Senate resolution calling on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to move toward more free and fair elections. I urge everyone to read the actual text of the resolution. It is not very long, and every word is spot on. My favorite part is when he mentioned that:

    …authorities in Egypt continue to harass, intimidate, arbitrarily detain, and engage in violence against peaceful demonstrators, journalists, human rights activists, and bloggers…”

  134. “Feingold has a solid jobs plan and detailed, specific proposals for controlling spending and reducing the federal deficit. He is a leading proponent of the pay-as-you-go principle that says government should not cut taxes or add entitlement spending without paying for it elsewhere, and he has joined with Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Janesville, in an effort to reduce pork-barrel spending in Washington.”

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20101021/GPG0602/10210698/1270/Editorial–Feingold-is-better-choice-for-Senate

  135. “The three-term Democrat from Middleton continues to lead with his principles and work in a collaborative, bipartisan fashion to strengthen our nation and its role in today’s complex world.

    He grasps the complexities, especially abroad, and he continues to show a great deal of courage in tackling difficult issues in a thoughtful, forward-thinking manner with members of both parties.”

    http://lacrossetribune.com/news/opinion/article_fadeffd0-de54-11df-a27f-001cc4c03286.html

  136. Elliot,

    If you can give me a piece of evidence showing how Feingold has a solid and integrity filled personal life, then I will support a 4 for his integrity.

  137. @POLLWONK

    1) You seem to obsesed with judging intergrity by personal life instead of both personal and campaign integrity.
    2) Unlike Newt Gingrich, Senator Feingold never cheated on his wives.
    3) Unlike basically all politicians, Senator Feingold never compromises with his princibles.

    If you ask anyone in Washington or Wisconsin, they will say that Senator Russ Feingold has higher than average integrity.

    Tom Coburn on Russ Feingold

    he said Feingold is “my idea of a great senator,” and a man of great integrity who keeps his word.

    “He has my utmost admiration,” Coburn said

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/112312114.html

    Integrity is based on personal and campaign integrity.

    Take Senator John McCain (who is my personal hero) for example. There has been some flip-flops, had affairs (and got divorced from his first wife Carol) when he was recovering from the Vietnam war. Senator McCain got 4 integrity. It is undeniable that Russ Feingold has a 4 integrity. He never cheated or flip-floped on issues and his personal life is better shape than Senator McCain’s.

  138. @Elliot

    1) You seem to obsesed with judging intergrity by personal life instead of both personal and campaign integrity.
    2) Unlike Newt Gingrich, Senator Feingold never cheated on his wives.
    3) Unlike basically all politicians, Senator Feingold never compromises with his princibles.

    If you ask anyone in Washington or Wisconsin, they will say that Senator Russ Feingold has higher than average integrity.

    Tom Coburn on Russ Feingold

    he said Feingold is “my idea of a great senator,” and a man of great integrity who keeps his word.

    “He has my utmost admiration,” Coburn said

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/112312114.html

    Integrity is based on personal and campaign integrity.

    Take Senator John McCain (who is my personal hero) for example. There has been some flip-flops, had affairs (and got divorced from his first wife Carol) when he was recovering from the Vietnam war. Senator McCain got 4 integrity. It is undeniable that Russ Feingold has a 4 integrity. He never cheated or flip-floped on issues and his personal life is better shape than Senator McCain’s.

    Unless Gingrich’s integrity goes down to a two, I support a 4 for Feingold’s integrity. I’m convinced.

  139. @270 Admin,

    Can you please update the candidates? Elliot and I have been submitting suggestions for many candidates like Feingold and Trump.

    Thanks

  140. @anthony_270admin

    Senator Feingold and Speaker Gringrich know far more about the issues than the other candidates. Russ Feingold spent his time learning as much as he can about the issues when he was in the Senate. There is a clear difference in issue knowledge between Feingold and Gringrich than the other candidates. Russ Feingold deserves nothing less than a 5 for IF.

  141. @PW, “Can you please update the candidates? Elliot and I have been submitting suggestions for many candidates like Feingold and Trump.”

    Right now, I’m busy with the Canadian election, and so this is on the back-burner. Once I return to focusing on this, I’ll be taking another look at attributes and so on. The feedback is noted.

  142. @anthony_270admin

    Right now, I’m busy with the Canadian election, and so this is on the back-burner. Once I return to focusing on this, I’ll be taking another look at attributes and so on. The feedback is noted.

    understood.

  143. Can I recomend that Chris Christie’s, Mitch Daniels, and Tim Pawlenty’s integrity gets boosted up a notch each?

  144. @anthony_270admin

    “Right now, I’m busy with the Canadian election, and so this is on the back-burner. Once I return to focusing on this, I’ll be taking another look at attributes and so on. The feedback is noted.”

    Why did you update Daniels and Pawlenty with no evidence at all? I provided evidence for boosting Russ Feingold’s leadership, issue familiarity, and debating and you did not update them.

  145. Hi Elliot, because I’m fairly familiar with those 2 candidates, and it sounds right to me. For both Pawlenty and Daniels, one of their perceived strengths is their integrity – more so for Daniels. If I could, I’d give Pawlenty a 3.5.

  146. @anthony_270admin

    “Elliot re: Feingold’s IF, ok, thanks for the feedback – noted”

    You seem at least some what convinced on Feingold’s IF. I just think your never going to update Feingold. It seems to me you don’t want to update Senator Feingold. I am starting to believe no matter what evidence I give, it won’t make a difference. I don’t know what I need to do to get the most accurate rating for Russ Feingold.

    I personally it find hard not to have Feingold’s IF=5, C=3, D=4

    Leadership is harder to prove, but on Bachmann “Le=4 as she has become one of the highest-profile leaders of the ‘Tea Party’.” It is the same deal for Russ Feingold. With the execption of Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold is the highest-profile Progressive.

  147. Feingold’s IF is already 4. The only other leader with an IF=5 right now is Gingrich. When we get closer to release, I’ll do more research on Feingold. As I said above, the feedback here is noted.

    Re: leadership and Bachmann, point taken.

  148. Upon watching the Republican Debate in SC last night, I came away with some interesting observations…

    1. Ron Paul and Herman Cain were both speaking really well and very poised while also firing up the crowd. Considering his performance, I could see Cain as a serious candidate.
    2. Pawlenty seemed to dodge the questions too much. He didn’t answer them directly, contrary to Herman Cain.
    3. Santorum showed some pretty good debating skills.
    4. Gary Johnson did pretty good for the most part. He squirmed a little, but it was very easy listening to him.

  149. @anthony_270admin

    “Feingold’s IF is already 4. The only other leader with an IF=5 right now is Gingrich. When we get closer to release, I’ll do more research on Feingold. As I said above, the feedback here is noted.”

    I personally have watched Feingold speak at the conventions…on TV…ect. He is a very intelligent, articulate, and witty politician. He is basically the Democrats’ version of a Gingrich, except he has good integrity. I think Feingold should have a 5 for IF.

  150. @anthony_270admin

    POLLWONK: “I personally have watched Feingold speak at the conventions…on TV…ect. He is a very intelligent, articulate, and witty politician. He is basically the Democrats’ version of a Gingrich, except he has good integrity. I think Feingold should have a 5 for IF.”

    The only thing I would add is that Senator Feingold is more charismatic than Newt Gingrich.

  151. “I could see Cain as a serious candidate.”

    Yes, I would put Cain on the margin between 4th tier and 3rd tier candidate right now (where the bottom candidates in the rankings are considered ‘3rd tier’).

  152. I think Ron Paul, Herman Cain and Donald Trump should be added for Republicans and maybe add Donald Trump as an Independent candidate since he has stated that he will probably run as an Independent if he does not receive the GOP Nomination.

  153. @Qbanito21

    “I think Ron Paul, Herman Cain and Donald Trump should be added for Republicans and maybe add Donald Trump as an Independent candidate since he has stated that he will probably run as an Independent if he does not receive the GOP Nomination.”

    Amen brother!!! Herman Cain for inclusion!!!

  154. @Elliot

    “The only thing I would add is that Senator Feingold is more charismatic than Newt Gingrich.”

    Yes, but Gingrich is still a charismatic guy.

  155. @POLLWONK

    “Yes, but Gingrich is still a charismatic guy.”

    No, not really. Russ Feingold is not very charismatic, but he is not uncharismatic. Is Senator Feingold a more boring speaker than Pawlenty? I don’t think so.

    Gingrich: C=2
    Feingold: C=3

  156. @No, not really. Russ Feingold is not very charismatic, but he is not uncharismatic. Is Senator Feingold a more boring speaker than Pawlenty? I don’t think so.

    Gingrich: C=2
    Feingold: C=3

    Well, I think Feingold and Newt both are charismatic.

    Gingrich: C=3
    Feingold: C=3>4

  157. @POLLWONK

    “Well, I think Feingold and Newt both are charismatic.”

    Russ Feingold has average charisma hense my ranking of 3. If you believe that Senator Feingold and Speaker Gingrich are charismatic, they both should get a least a 4. I would like any possible evidence for your case.

  158. Reflecting on his 2008 bid, my conclusion is that he didn’t have strong executive skills. So, it should have been lower in P4E8.

  159. @anthony_270admin

    Can you increase Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. leadership to a 5. Governor Huntsman was one of the best governors in the country.

  160. @anthony_270admin

    Can Sec. Hillary Clinton have attributes, since she is on the candidate list?

  161. Hillary Clinton added. Feedback on specific attributes, with reasons why, welcome!

  162. @anthony_270admin

    I though Clinton (and Feingold) would get 3 for Ch because they is not boring to listen to. Tim Pawlenty is boring to listen to and he gets a Ch=3!

  163. I would argue that charisma isn’t only about the excitement in the tonality that is brought by a candidate but rather what is being spoken. President Reagan was not a charismatic politician in the sense that he was pompous in his speaking but rather he was charismatic because of his boldness in and authenticity with what he spoke about namely conservative principles. So Elliot, I would argue for Tim Pawlenty being at the level three because although he does not speak with a loud voice he is one of the best in this race that speaks with an authenticity on the issues and is personal with what he says. This is when area where a Romney or Huntsman is weak.

  164. @Matt

    “I would argue that charisma isn’t only about the excitement in the tonality that is brought by a candidate but rather what is being spoken. President Reagan was not a charismatic politician in the sense that he was pompous in his speaking but rather he was charismatic because of his boldness in and authenticity with what he spoke about namely conservative principles. So Elliot, I would argue for Tim Pawlenty being at the level three because although he does not speak with a loud voice he is one of the best in this race that speaks with an authenticity on the issues and is personal with what he says. This is when area where a Romney or Huntsman is weak.”

    I think you are confusing Integrity with Charisma. Mitt Romney is a charismatic speaker, but does he believe what he is saying? Not really. Jon Huntsman sounds like a good speaker, but does he believe what he is saying? As far as I can tell yes.
    Tim Pawlenty is a flip flopper and doesn’t believe what he says. Senator Russ Feingold definately believes what he is saying and excites crowds. Does that mean Senator Feingold should get a 4 or 5 Charisma? No. He should get a 3.

  165. Hillary Clinton L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-5…C-3…S-3…D-3

    Leadership: She helped maintain US relations with foreign nations during the Wikileaks fiasco. She also helped build relations toward foreign nations, paving the way for increased negotiations between the Obama administration and other countries.

    Experience: She was a first lady, US Senator for 8 years, and the US Secretary of State. Enough said.

    Issue Familarity: She gave far more detailed answers in 2008 Debates than Obama ever gave. Obama kept muttering results and results without even saying what his plan was. Hillary actually had ideas and proposed them.

    Charisma+Stamina+Debating: Nothing special

  166. @Elliot, “I though Clinton (and Feingold) would get 3 for Ch because they is not boring to listen to. Tim Pawlenty is boring to listen to and he gets a Ch=3!”

    I think Pawlenty will end up with a 2. I’m still weighing the evidence and seeing how (if) he changes as we move closer to the primaries.

  167. @Mr. Progressive, do you mean the Republican Standings on the right side? They don’t affect things in the game. They’re just a way for me to test my read of the field.

  168. @Elliot

    Bachmann IF=3

    Romney D=5

    I agree totally. The media’s perception of Bachmann was entirely wrong…all because happened to mess up where the revolutionary war began, a non-issue! In the debates, she proved her knowledge of the issues to be good enough.

    Romney is a skilled debater. He could probably clean Obama’s clock in a debate, considering what the issues will be in 2012 (economy, healthcare, ect.)

  169. It doesn’t matter what she says!!! She can call Obama and the Democrats un-American for all I care!! That has nothing to do with the issues!! She even later said it herself that it wasn’t an issue in a campaign!! And as for other controversial remarks, THEY’RE CONTROVERSIAL, NOT UNEDUCATED!!
    If we are going to go about your way of doing it, Hillary Clinton, Newt Gingrich, and Mitt Romney all should have 2s for the IF…Russ Feingold should have a 3. Huckabee a 2…

    The way you are calculating cannot be held to one candidate only! I know politicans who make pretty stupid remarks (Obama: Guns and Religion clingers), but are given good ratings!

  170. POLLWONK,

    “It doesn’t matter what she says!!! She can call Obama and the Democrats un-American for all I care!! That has nothing to do with the issues!! She even later said it herself that it wasn’t an issue in a campaign!! And as for other controversial remarks, THEY’RE CONTROVERSIAL, NOT UNEDUCATED!!
    If we are going to go about your way of doing it, Hillary Clinton, Newt Gingrich, and Mitt Romney all should have 2s for the IF…Russ Feingold should have a 3. Huckabee a 2…

    The way you are calculating cannot be held to one candidate only! I know politicans who make pretty stupid remarks (Obama: Guns and Religion clingers), but are given good ratings!”

    You misinterpret what I was talking about. Bachmann, clearly doesn’t know what she is talking about. In the article points out several uneducated remarks. I am not calculating at all based gaffes. I am talking about the issues.

    “Bachmann goes on Glenn Beck’s Fox program to discuss the specter of “One World currency” and delivers what historians may later dub her “I am not a kook!” speech. “Glenn, I have experienced that throughout my political career being labeled a kook. It just happened again in a big story in the Minneapolis Star Tribune. But all we have to do is point to the treasury secretary on tape, on camera. This is not Michele Bachmann being a kook. This is our treasury secretary on tape and on camera.” A visibly confused Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner had told Bachmann he was not aware of any plan to replace the dollar.”

    Ever vigilant of bureaucratic waste, Bachmann alleges that President Obama’s trip to India will be more expensive than the entire war in Afghanistan: “The president of the United States will be taking a trip over to India that is expected to cost the taxpayers $200 million a day. He’s taking 2,000 people with him. He will be renting out over 870 rooms in India. And these are five-star hotel rooms at the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel. This is the kind of over-the-top spending.” An exasperated White House spokesman later said the charges, which stemmed from an anonymous official in the west Indian state of Maharashtra, had “no basis in reality.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_IDKkQHsgI&feature=channel_video_title Michele Bachmann CO2 Fail

  171. @Elliot

    Ever vigilant of bureaucratic waste, Bachmann alleges that President Obama’s trip to India will be more expensive than the entire war in Afghanistan: “The president of the United States will be taking a trip over to India that is expected to cost the taxpayers $200 million a day. He’s taking 2,000 people with him. He will be renting out over 870 rooms in India. And these are five-star hotel rooms at the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel. This is the kind of over-the-top spending.” An exasperated White House spokesman later said the charges, which stemmed from an anonymous official in the west Indian state of Maharashtra, had “no basis in reality.”

    Elliot, have you ever heard of sarcasm? I think Bachmann is smart enough to know that it costs less than that. It’s like when Mike Huckabee said in 2008 regarding Congressional Spending, “Congress spends like John Edwards at a hairsalon”..
    Edwards spends around $800 for his weekly haircut while Congress spends about $3 trillion a year. However, Huckabee was pointing out that Congress’s spending should be viewed as outrageously wasteful as Edwards’ hair primping.

  172. Rick Perry…L-5…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-4…S-4…D-4

    Leadership: He brought a balanced budget to Texas, as well as reforms in the judicial system, boosted their economy so it ranked as one of the strongest in the nation, brought down unemployment, a pro-life bill, and managed to privitize the state’s Medicaid and Medicare.

    Integrity: No scandals in his term…

    Experience: He served two years as Texas Lietenant Governor and 10 years as Texas Governor.

    Issue Familarity: Perry is very much up to date with the issues. His reforms clearly show that…when medicaid and medicare were dragging down the state, Perry worked out a clear and effective path toward privitizing MC MCaid.

    Charisma: Perry has been compared to a Reagan when it comes to passion and charisma.

    Stamina: He has served 10 years in the Governors mansion and is still going strong

    Debating: He is very tough and rough when it comes to debates…

  173. @Elliot

    “Turns out Texas was the state that depended the most on those very stimulus funds to plug nearly 97% of its shortfall for fiscal 2010, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.”

    May I remind you that Texas has fared the recession far better than most states while at the same time maintaing a balanced budget?

  174. http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=27419

    Governor Rick Perry Signs Budget Proposal 7/19/11

    Office of the Governor
    Rick Perry
    Press Release
    July 19, 2011

    AUSTIN – Gov. Rick Perry today signed Senate Bill 1 and Senate Bill 2, passed during the special session of the 82nd Legislature, which finalize a balanced budget for the 2012-13 biennium without raising taxes, allocating more than half of state funds to education and preserving $6 billion in the state’s Rainy Day Fund. The governor has also signed legislation that reforms the Texas Windstorm Insurance Association (TWIA), enacts new congressional districts, and helps contain costs in the Medicaid program and improve quality and efficiency in health care. Gov. Perry signed all eight bills that lawmakers sent to his desk during the special session.

    “I applaud lawmakers for their dedicated efforts to complete the work that will keep our state on strong footing over the next two years and beyond,” Gov. Perry said. “We overcame substantial challenges to balance our state budget without raising taxes, protecting essential services and preserving our Rainy Day Fund. The tough decisions made this session to keep Texas living within its means will reap greater dividends down the road as we continue to strengthen the principles that will keep Texas job creation strong, including restrained spending, low taxes, reasonable regulations, a fair legal system and accountable public schools.”

    Senate Bill 1 also extends the small business tax exemption that was passed in 2009 to 2014, a measure that Gov. Perry fought to continue and that will keep taxes low for thousands of small businesses across the state.

    Gov. Perry also signed House Bill 3, which improves TWIA’s operations, protecting Texans from the effects of devastating hurricane seasons and keeping insurance coverage available to Texans living along the coast. It also implements reforms that will ensure the association timely and adequately compensates its policyholders without enriching trial lawyers or further undermining the organization’s financial stability.

    Gov. Perry again applauded lawmakers for their work in passing key issues he declared emergency items during the regular session, including measures that:
    • Strengthen Texas’ legal climate by implementing a loser pays system to cut down on frivolous lawsuits;
    • Protect the integrity of elections by requiring voters to present a photo ID at the polls;
    • Protect life by requiring a woman to receive a sonogram before electing to have an abortion;
    • Strengthen private property rights by passing eminent domain protections into law; and
    • Call on the U.S. Congress to pass a balanced budget amendment.

    Additionally, Gov. Perry highlighted important legislation that will combat human trafficking, giving prosecutors the tools to ensure those that commit this crime are brought to justice and strengthen the penalties for those who are convicted.

  175. Elliot, why on earth are you attacking Rick Perry on the balanced budget issue, when Russ Feingold voted “aye” for three of the biggest budget busting pieces of legislation in history???

    a.) Obamacare
    b.) The Stimulus I
    c.) THe Stimulus II

    At least Rick Perry has directed Texas and put the plan into place for a balanced budget…without raising taxes!!! Meanwhile, Russ Feingold approved of oodles and oodles of spending during his last two years in office.

  176. Elliot, if Obama is getting a 4 for his leadership, yet still spent trillions of dollars, then how much more successful was Rick Perry when he actually passed his Balanced Budget? Not to mention, Texas got a deal done, meanwhile, President Obama is struggling to gain compromise in Washington. Rick Perry deserves a 5 for leadership.

  177. Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) and Republican lawmakers completely failed to keep their promise not to “kick the can” down the road when it came to solving the largest budget shortfall in the state’s history. That’s according to a new Associated Press report, which concludes that Perry and the GOP legislature largely balanced the state’s budget through flimsy accounting gimmicks that do nothing to secure Texas’ financial footing.

    The self-professed fiscal conservatives resorted to tactics like delaying a $2.3 billion payment to schools by one day to technically push it into the next fiscal year and keep it off the books of this budget. They also “found” $800 million by ordering the state’s accountants to forecast a faster increase in land values to show more property tax income:

    Gov. Rick Perry signed a budget that was balanced only through accounting maneuvers, rewriting school funding laws, ignoring a growing population and delaying payments on bills coming due in 2013.

    It accomplishes, however, what the Republican majority wanted most: It did not raise taxes, took little from the Rainy Day Fund and shifted any future deficits onto the next Legislature.

    The new budget also preposterously assumes there will be no growth in the number of school children in Texas, even though it is one of the fastest-growing states in the nation. Experts predict this trick alone will shortchange school districts by $2 billion.

    Texas lawmakers had to close an enormous $27 billion budget deficit this year. Amazingly, only about a third of it was caused by the economic downturn. The state has had a chronic shortage of revenue after years of slashing property and business taxes and creating numerous tax breaks and exemptions. Conservative governors have slashed state services to the bone, so there was no more fat to cut from the budget.

    As governor for over a decade, Perry’s “fiscal conservatism” has doubled the state’s debt from $13.7 billion in 2001 to $34.08 billion in 2009. He’s refused to raise taxes on the wealthy and brags about not dipping into the state’s substantial Rainy Day Fund. (However, Perry’s fellow Texas Republicans claim Perry has appropriated nearly all the money in the Rainy Day Fund, and have asked him to stop claiming that he preserved it.)

    Democrats have fought back against the GOP claim that it was truly a balanced

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/06/261752/perry-budget-accounting-gimmicks/

  178. “Congressional budget analysts said on Thursday a broad healthcare overhaul would cut the U.S. deficit over 10 years and sharply expand insurance coverage, boosting the momentum for final passage in the House of Representatives.”

    House Democratic leaders unveiled the final changes to the overhaul, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated would expand coverage at a cost of $940 billion over 10 years and cut the deficit by $138 billion in the same period through new fees, taxes and cost-saving measures.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/18/us-usa-healthcare-idUSTRE61O4NV20100318

  179. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2010/02/cbo-unemployment-would-have-topped-11-without-stimulus/1

    The CBO says the nation’s unemployment rate was between 0.5% and 1.1% lower because of the stimulus. In other words, the unemployment rate could have been more than 11% without the stimulus package, according to the CBO’s analysis.

    The CBO also estimates that the nation’s economic output was 1.5% to 3.5% higher in the fourth quarter of 2009 because of the stimulus. The White House economists’ estimate was between 1.5% and 3% of extra growth of the gross domestic product

  180. “Elliot, if Obama is getting a 4 for his leadership, yet still spent trillions of dollars, then how much more successful was Rick Perry when he actually passed his Balanced Budget? Not to mention, Texas got a deal done, meanwhile, President Obama is struggling to gain compromise in Washington.”

    In Texas the State Legislature, Republicans have control of both houses. They will pass a budget that the Republican governor approves of.

    Meanwhile the Republicans in Congress block everything that President Obama wants because “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” -Senator Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The Republicans put winning an Presidential Election before fixing America’s problems.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/25/913266/-GOP-Goal:-Make-Obama-1-term-President

  181. @ Elliot
    ”In Texas the State Legislature, Republicans have control of both houses. They will pass a budget that the Republican governor approves of. Meanwhile the Republicans in Congress block everything that President Obama wants because “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” -Senator Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The Republicans put winning an Presidential Election before fixing America’s problems.”

    May I remind you that President Obama and the Democrats controlled the House and Senae for two years? They also claimed it was the most succcessful Congress ever. They had a 60-seat senate for a year and two months as well as a 59% control of the House.

  182. @Elliot
    “Yet, according to two well-known economists, the stimulus program actually saved the country, keeping it from plunging into what they call the “Great Depression 2.0.”

    And these same “experts” also denied the possibility that the US would almost default on its debt, lose its AAA rating, and unemployment remain ABOVE 8% by 2011. Also, I do believe the recent economic report doesn’t support their arguments. The Federal Reserve is predicting the recovery to slow down and that’s only the good news…the bad news is within the past week, the stock markets have hit a roller coaster ride and we have lost all the gains we made in the 2011 year with the Dow Jones.

    The general excuse given by these economists is, “Oh, imagine all the jobs the stimulus saved!” well, unemployment hasn’t yet improved much…our debt is through the roof…our entitlement programs are sucking the life out us…(and I can hear Obama saying right now: “that’s the change we need!”)

  183. “May I remind you that President Obama and the Democrats controlled the House and Senae for two years? They also claimed it was the most succcessful Congress ever. They had a 60-seat senate for a year and two months as well as a 59% control of the House.”

    The Republicans filibustered almost everything the Democrats in the Senate. The only two ways that the Democrats got anything done was to do break a filbuster or pass everything through reconciliation which is how they passed the health care bill.

  184. “Yet, according to two well-known economists, the stimulus program actually saved the country, keeping it from plunging into what they call the “Great Depression 2.0.”

    And these same “experts” also denied the possibility that the US would almost default on its debt, lose its AAA rating, and unemployment remain ABOVE 8% by 2011. Also, I do believe the recent economic report doesn’t support their arguments. The Federal Reserve is predicting the recovery to slow down and that’s only the good news…the bad news is within the past week, the stock markets have hit a roller coaster ride and we have lost all the gains we made in the 2011 year with the Dow Jones.

    From Free Fall by Joseph E. Stiglitz, Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
    “In short, within a few months of the passage of the stimulus bill it became obvious that it had not been big enough; (66)” “In two months, the economy had destroyed half as many many jobs as the entire Obama program had hoped to create over two years” (64).

    “Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz who said the ratings agencies continued their “remarkable track record” of misjudging risk. “They underestimated the risk of subprime failures and now they are overestimating the risk of a U.S. default.”

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/08/09/idINIndia-58689020110809

  185. The U.S. didn’t “almost default on its debt.” The Republicans played a game of chicken with President Obama and they won. Obama could have used the 14th amendment to keep the U.S. from defaulting.

    “Get Americans back to work. Stimulus and works programs are politically untenable right now but Stiglitz says spending on these programs will ultimately reduce the debt because if we put people to work and “our tax revenues will increase enormously.”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/joseph-stiglitz-simple-4-step-plan-solving-america-120134116.html

  186. “The general excuse given by these economists is, “Oh, imagine all the jobs the stimulus saved!” well, unemployment hasn’t yet improved much…our debt is through the roof…our entitlement programs are sucking the life out us…(and I can hear Obama saying right now: “that’s the change we need!”)”

    “Back in 1983, Alan Greenspan’s Social Security commission was supposed to have fixed the system for good – by gradually increasing payroll taxes and raising the retirement age.” But we lowerd the pallroll tax, so now there are some minor problems with problems that could be easily fixed.

    If we raise the pallroll tax, we can fund Social Security and Medicare (execpt for Medicare part D) ‘s long-term problems should be solved.

    “If we want to go back to 90 percent, the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security tax would need to be raised to $180,000.

    Presto. Social Security’s long-term (beyond 26 years from now) problem would be solved.

    So there’s no reason even to consider reducing Social Security benefits or raising the age of eligibility. The logical response to the increasing concentration of income at the top is simply to raise the ceiling.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/budget-baloney-why-social_b_824331.html

  187. Contrary to the Tea Party, Stiglitz has been arguing since the financial crisis that cuts in government spending will only worsen America’s fiscal mess because we will generate fewer tax revenues. “Austerity is not only a recipe for more pain now it’s really a recipe for more pain later,” he says. “You don’t provide the basis of economic growth by having negative economic growth.”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/joseph-stiglitz-simple-4-step-plan-solving-america-120134116.html

  188. An update on what I think the attributes should be:

    Rep. Michele Bachmann Le=3, In=3, Ex=2, IF=2, Ch=4, St=4, D=3,
    Gov. Haley Barbour Le=4, In=2, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=3,
    Gov. Chris Christie Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=4, St=3, D=4,
    Sec. Hillary Clinton Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=4,
    Gov. Mitch Daniels Le=4, In=4, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=2, St=3, D=3,
    Sen. Russ Feingold Le=4, In=4, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=3, St=3, D=4,
    Rep. Newt Gingrich Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=2, St=3, D=4,
    Gov. Mike Huckabee Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=4, St=3, D=4
    Gov. Jon Huntsman Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=3
    Gov. Bobby Jindal Le=3, In=4, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=3, St=3, D=3,
    Gov. Gary Johnson Le=4, In=3, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=2, St=3, D=3,
    President Barack Obama Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=3
    Gov. Sarah Palin L=3, In=3, Ex=2, IF=2, Ch=4, St=4, D=2
    Rep. Ron Paul Le=3, In=4, Ex=3, IF=4, Ch=3, St=2, D=3,
    Gov. Tim Pawlenty L=3, In=3, Exp=3, IF=3, Ch=2, St=4, D=2
    Gen. David Petraeus Le=5, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=3, St=4, D=3,
    Gov. Mitt Romney Le=4, In=3, Ex=4, IF=4, Ch=4, St=4, D=4
    Sen. Rick Santorum Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=3, St=4, D=3,
    Sen. John Thune Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=3, Ch=4, St=3, D=3,
    Mr. Donald Trump Le=3, In=3, Ex=3, IF=2, Ch=4, St=3, D=3,

  189. “Texas Ranks Dead Last in Total Job Creation, Accounting for Labor Force Growth”

    Elliot, look at the facts…Texas has accounted for 40% of American job growth over the past decade…

    You can keep throwing stupid articles at me. I can start a website and start publishing random political views. But when it comes to facts, no newspaper or blog article can override it. Texas has been one of the strongest economies. Most economists would say it is. If it ever left the union, then it would immediatly be part of the G-20, fact.
    Its budget was balanced by Rick Perry. Maybe not a very popular move, but it was balanced, a fact.
    You gave me facts with Russ Feingold, I’m giving you facts on Rick Perry and Texas.

    Perry…L-5…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-4…S-4…D-5

  190. “Back in 1983, Alan Greenspan’s Social Security commission was supposed to have fixed the system for good – by gradually increasing payroll taxes and raising the retirement age.” But we lowerd the pallroll tax, so now there are some minor problems with problems that could be easily fixed.

    If we raise the pallroll tax, we can fund Social Security and Medicare (execpt for Medicare part D) ‘s long-term problems should be solved.

    “If we want to go back to 90 percent, the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security tax would need to be raised to $180,000.

    Presto. Social Security’s long-term (beyond 26 years from now) problem would be solved.

    So there’s no reason even to consider reducing Social Security benefits or raising the age of eligibility. The logical response to the increasing concentration of income at the top is simply to raise the ceiling.”

    Sorry, I don’t follow. I wasn’t talking about Social Security. I was talking about the stimulus…
    I am comparing results to expectations with the Stimulus. DC Bureaucrats say it would create 2-5 million new jobs…

    …well, unemployment is still 9.1%…the debt is through the roof…the economy is on the brink of a second recession…the Fed Reserve has said recently the recovery has slowed alarmingly…our children and grandchildren are now saddled with a $14T debt…

  191. “Get Americans back to work. Stimulus and works programs are politically untenable right now but Stiglitz says spending on these programs will ultimately reduce the debt because if we put people to work and “our tax revenues will increase enormously.”

  192. really elliot? 2.5 trillion? hell, why not 50 trillion?? it is not our money anyway…. got to love the “envirorment” of spending someone else’s money…

  193. “really elliot? 2.5 trillion? hell, why not 50 trillion?? it is not our money anyway…. got to love the “envirorment” of spending someone else’s money…”

    We need to spend more to create jobs and growth in the economy to deal with the long-term problem of the debt. If we create jobs and growth, we will reduce the debt.

  194. I was going to pre purchase this to become a beta tester but was broke at that time, girl problems was the reason why lets just say lol. I beta tested for congress forever 2010. Is there ANY POSSIBILITY to pre-purchase P4E 2012 to beta test ,i know im late but i will give feedback of any and all glitches I come upon, I doubt its possible but I want to play this game badley,even in beta testing phase and would like to help, so i figure theres no harm in atleast putting it out there. 🙂

    -Mitch

  195. “Rick Perry benefited from the evirorment (oil) in Texas.”

    Of course. Do think Obama is going to benefit from the 3-4 dollar gas prices that have been around for the past 6 months?

  196. “Get Americans back to work. Stimulus and works programs are politically untenable right now but Stiglitz says spending on these programs will ultimately reduce the debt because if we put people to work and “our tax revenues will increase enormously.”

    I’m sorry…but have people been put back to work yet? No. I have friends who were working good jobs just a year ago. Now, they’re unemployed. Unemployment has just jumped from 8.8% to 9.1% (look it up at Gallup). Tax revenues aren’t increasing. Obama himself admits it. That’s why he tried raising taxes when it came to the budget fight.
    Obama has found himself caught in a similar situation to Jimmy Carter. Carter found himself fighting debts and high unemployment. Carter found himself dealing with an angry populace who is tired sick of his policies. Obama has found himslef with an angry populace who dissaproves of his handling of the economy (65% disaprove, CNN Poll). And you know what? The biggest issue of both Carter’s day and Obama was and is the economy. The Fed Reserve has been releasing reports of slowing economic growth. I am sorry, but the stimulus didn’t work, it didn’t reach its expecations. This is not a recovery. THis is not a bailout. This bill was an economic catastrophe!

  197. “I’m sorry…but have people been put back to work yet? No. I have friends who were working good jobs just a year ago. Now, they’re unemployed. Unemployment has just jumped from 8.8% to 9.1% (look it up at Gallup). Tax revenues aren’t increasing. Obama himself admits it. That’s why he tried raising taxes when it came to the budget fight.
    Obama has found himself caught in a similar situation to Jimmy Carter. Carter found himself fighting debts and high unemployment. Carter found himself dealing with an angry populace who is tired sick of his policies. Obama has found himslef with an angry populace who dissaproves of his handling of the economy (65% disaprove, CNN Poll). And you know what? The biggest issue of both Carter’s day and Obama was and is the economy. The Fed Reserve has been releasing reports of slowing economic growth. I am sorry, but the stimulus didn’t work, it didn’t reach its expecations. This is not a recovery. THis is not a bailout. This bill was an economic catastrophe!”

    Obama doesn’t understand economics. I don’t trust Obama on economic policy and he will lose in 2012 in landslide because he won’t fight the Republicans and unemployment will be above 8%. We need to spend more and create jobs. The debt is a long-term issue which will become manageable if we get America working again, end the Bush Tax Cuts and the wars.

    From Economics: Second Edition By Paul Krugman (A winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences) and Robin Wells
    “Macroeconomics emerged as a separate branch of economics in the 1930s, when a collapse of consumer and business spending, a crisis in the banking industry, and other factors led to a plunge in overall spending. This plunge in spending, in turn, led to a period of very high unemployment know as the Great Depression. The lesson economists learned from the troubles of the 1930s is that overall spending –the amount of goods and services that consumers and businesses want to buy-something doesn’t match the amount of goods and services the economy is capable of producing. In the 1930s, spending fell far short of what was needed to keep American workers employed, and the result was a severe economic slump. In fact, shortfall in spending are responsible for most, through not all, recessions- although nothing like the Great Depression has happened since the 1930s.”

  198. “We need to spend more to create jobs and growth in the economy to deal with the long-term problem of the debt. If we create jobs and growth, we will reduce the debt.” -Elliot

    hahah very funny. obama is spending huge amounts of money but is he creating jobs? heck no. unemployment is 9%. it will be interesting where we get 2.5 trillion dollars. us government is already running a 1.3 trillion budget deficit and 14.7 trillion dollar debt.

  199. We need to spend now, so we can create jobs and grow the economy, the debt will decrease because there would be more taxes flowing into the goverment.

  200. @Elliot
    “Obama actually cut spending… alot.. and it damaged the economy and caused unemployment to rise.”

    So…if I was Congress, I could either spend myself to death and have a strong economy…or I could have a balanced budget and kill the economy?

    How about Bill Clinton? He ran budget surpluses, cut wasteful spending, reformed welfare, and tore down regulations. Oh, and by the way…our economy was booming

  201. @Mike
    “hahah very funny. obama is spending huge amounts of money but is he creating jobs? heck no. unemployment is 9%. it will be interesting where we get 2.5 trillion dollars. us government is already running a 1.3 trillion budget deficit and 14.7 trillion dollar debt.”

    Amen brother! If we were to take every dollar in the Obama stimulus (878 billion) and stack it up, it would be the height of 61,000 Empire State Buildings. (do the math)

  202. By creating jobs you increase the debt(short term) and if you decrease the debt by cutting spending, you lose jobs.

    Robost Economy with Jobs with increased debt which won’t be a problem within increase of tax revenue…or a failing economy with no jobs, and more bailouts.

    Bill Clinton had higher taxes rates that allowed the economy to boom.

    Deregulation led the crisis in 2008. Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act under Bill Clinton led to the creation of the too big to fail banks.

  203. @Elliot
    “By creating jobs you increase the debt(short term) and if you decrease the debt by cutting spending, you lose jobs.

    Robost Economy with Jobs with increased debt which won’t be a problem within increase of tax revenue…or a failing economy with no jobs, and more bailouts.

    Bill Clinton had higher taxes rates that allowed the economy to boom.

    Deregulation led the crisis in 2008. Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act under Bill Clinton led to the creation of the too big to fail banks.”

    Look, I’m getting sick of this debate. I have a dozen responses that I could give to each one of your statements. Can we just get back to giving attributes to candidates?
    Thanks!

  204. Veeps…

    Marco Rubio- L-4…I-4…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-3

    Mike Lee- L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Paul Ryan- L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Herman Cain- L-4…I-5…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-4

    Jim DeMint- L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Bob McDonnell- L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-3

  205. Gov. Rick Perry …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-4…S-4…D-3

    Marco Rubio- L-4…I-4…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-3

    Mike Lee- L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Paul Ryan- L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Herman Cain- L-4…I-3…E-2…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-4

    Jim DeMint- L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-4

    Bob McDonnell- L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-3

  206. Gov. Rick Perry …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-4…C-3…S-3…D-2

    Marco Rubio- L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-4

    Mike Lee- L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-3

    Paul Ryan- L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-3…S-4…D-3

    Herman Cain- L-3…I-3…E-2…IF-3…C-4…S-3…D-3

    Jim DeMint- L-3…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-3

    Bob McDonnell- L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-3…C-3…S-4…D-3

  207. Herman Cain… L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-4…S-3…D-4

    Experience:
    Herman Cain is a retired businessman and lobbyist from Georgia who announced in May of 2011 that he would seek the Republican nomination for the presidential election of 2012. He came to politics late in life, rising to prominence after a public debate in 1994 with President Bill Clinton over the president’s plan to reform health care. At the time, Cain was the chairman on the board of directors of the National Restaurant Association, a lobbying group, and the president and Chief Executive Officer of the Godfather’s Pizza chain. Cain grew up in Atlanta, Georgia and has a degree in mathematics from Morehouse College (1967) and a graduate degree in computer science from Indiana’s Purdue University (1971). After working as a civilian analyst for the U.S. Navy, Cain worked in the early 1970s for the Coca-Cola Company and then joined Pillsbury in 1977, where he worked his way up to the position of vice president. He had great success running hundreds of Burger King restaurants (at the time a subsidiary of Pillsbury), and Pillsbury made him president of their Godfather’s Pizza chain in 1986. He and a team of investors managed a buyout in 1988, and he joined the National Restaurant Association’s board that same year. Cain resigned his post at Godfather’s in 1996 to act as the Association’s full-time president and to work as an economic adviser to the unsuccessful Republican candidates for president and vice president, Bob Dole and Jack Kemp.

    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/herman-cain#ixzz1cDKkpzPZ

  208. Herman Cain- L-4…I-3…E-2…IF-2…C-4…S-3…D-3

    Experience: never held any elected office

    Issue Familiarity- doesn’t know anything about foreign policy, had 999 plan that doesn’t really work

    Debating- Cain has trouble explaining his plans

  209. @Elliot November 1, 2011 at 4:01 pm #
    Gov. Rick Perry …L-4…I-3…E-4…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-2

    I agree with that, except for the Experience. Let’s face it, 11 years as Governor is alot of time…

    Otherwise, I agree.

    Rick Perry L-4…I-3…E-5…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-2

  210. Hey 270 Admin! Are you focusing on this blog? We have been giving suggestions on guys like Feingold, Perry, and Cain!

    Feingold… L-4…I-4…E-3…IF-5…C-3…S-4…S-4
    Perry…L-4…I-3…E-5…IF-3…C-4…S-4…D-2
    Cain…L-4…I-3…E-3…IF-4…C-5…S-4…D-3

  211. @POLLWONK

    @270 Admin said a 5 for experience is almost exclusively reserved for sitting Presidents

    Herman Cain- L-4…I-2…E-2…IF-2…C-4…S-3…D-3

  212. @Elliot,

    Though I would give most incumbent presidents a 5 for experience, Obama still hasn’t spent much time in DC. Heck, only 6 years… 3 as a Senator, and 3 as President.
    I give him a 4 for being President, but no higher…

    I’m more tempted to give Russ Feingold a 5 than Obama.

  213. What’s the latest on the President Forever 2012 release? I don’t follow this regularly (although I’ve been playing since 2004), but I haven’t been able to find a download or recent update…

  214. The last candidate list you included is clearly outdated. I didn’t see Rick Perry or Herman Cain on it.

    Please update the list and launch the game already! We are dying to see it!

    -Daniel

  215. If Perry’s not a 1 for debating something’s wrong. I just generally think this game doesn’t give enough 1s, 2s, and 5s. Romney’s charisma for example: no doubt that it can’t be higher than a 2. Bachmann’s issue knowledge? No higher than a 2. Cain’s experience? No higher than a 2. Gingrich’s issue knowledge, or Obama’s issue knowledge? They have to be 5s. There’s no question.

  216. This may have been discussed already somewhere, but I assume that Gingrich will have at least a 5 for debating since his entire campaign seems to be debate based (see South Carolina). His integrity is suspect, but his debate skills are not.

  217. @kiernanmc and @Bob,

    These numbers are not the latest. The latest numbers are in the latest internal version of President Forever 2012.

    I have added a new note at the top of this post to that effect.

  218. @PW, they’ll be released when it goes to Beta. Note: initial versions of the Beta won’t have all these candidates.

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